Whats first ? Architect or Contractor ? Together with Quotes

Its the 3rd week of November 2016, and its now been just over a month since we had picked up the keys to our home.

If I had known today much earlier, I would have started searching for an architect the moment we had our Loan Approval. This really makes a difference, because it will take a little time for things to move forward.

I like being ready when its time to move forward the moment I move to another level.

If you would want to renovate a home, anywhere in Malaysia, what should you do first ? Do you look for a Contractor ? or Architect First ? 

Contractors will have their own Architects that they can source as well. Some contractors would like working with their own architects as well. But should you take this advise and move it with ?  

This question may come into play because we ourselves were not sure doing this the first time. But the real answer to the question :

WHAT SHOULD I DO FIRST

Should I Look for a contractor first ? or look for an Architect ?

Architect first

Why ?

Because the architect firm will need to submit plans to your local town council such as MBPJ. And thats why the contractor isnt an achitect.

Working with a contractors architect will mean that some information may not be presented right. Lets face it, all contractors are mainly lowyatt folks, and with lowyatt folks, nothing is right or direct.

There are ALWAYS points being missed out. Especially with MBPJ, there is no fucking around unless you are wasting time. And wasting time is done with the wrong architect. Each time a submission is made to MBPJ, it costs money. Get it wrong, you are resubmitting again, and again and again. 

When should I do this ?

Take your time in selecting an architect but also start as soon as you have gotten your SPA signed. 

This is the simple long and short answer. Took us 8 months to figure this out. We wasted 8 months of our time after picking up the keys, but nothing began to move till about 5 weeks ago. Its July 2017 as I am writing this. More of this in the next chapter but here are some stories that we have compiled of different approaches with Contractors and Architects before finally settling on the one.

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***** Update : 10/7/2019 : When selecting an architect, please ask them if they are certified. Ask them for their company name and do a search on them. You may find search for them at the following link :

http://portal.lam.gov.my/lam/website_member_list.php?gtype=pa

Though this is a little late update above, we also found that many companies as mentioned below in entertaining way, have also not been certified using the link above. Something we are totally thankful for. Our Architect we are working with now, is a bonefide company. Always has been. Enjoy the stories below my little ones :)

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ARCHITECTS

We decided that it would be best if we took 3 quotes and decided on which architect we would go with. Basing things on a simple principle of :

1. Upmarket Architect

2. Middle Range Architect

3. Low Range Architect

4. Bastard Architect / Contractor (Bonus Story)

This was also followed then by :

CONTRACTORS

You see I work in a factory, and deal with materials such as plywood, steel, aluminium and know costings VERY well. However, contractors think that people like me are pencil pushers and dont know what things cost.

My terms were simple, Ill buy the materials, ill pay for the labor and the machinery if at the contractors expense. Meaning from every saw, grinding disc, hacking machine, scaffolding, till your buckets and pails is the contractors.

In addition, this neighborhood is also guarded at night and no Indons were allowed to stay inside. So there will be stories of :

1. Contractor 1

2. Contractor 2

3. Contractor 3

4. Contractor 4

ARCHITECT  1

 UPMARKET ARCHITECT

I received a quote from Seshan Design, RM 400.00 per square foot. I have never responded back. I like this guy, but I just couldnt afford him. This was my first choice. It would have been nice to work with this chap, but unfortunately, Im no lowyatt billionaire. 

ARCHITECT 2

 MID RANGE ARCHITECT

This fell under the category of our Friends, they quoted us 58,000 which to me was just way too much for what Friends would charge. Thrown in with progressive payments as well, I still thought that things would cost at Maximum around the 36,000 range. They were also slow, perhaps it was cause they were too busy.

So we thought fuck this. 

In addition, while they had also the fear that things would take very long with MBPJ with submissions, they themselves are a couple of around 32 - 34 years of age I guess.

So they worry a lot about stupid things like MBPJ and not knowing well enough in their profession how to advise customers like us when submitting things correctly to your local town council. 

They had mentioned as well that they think their Dad could help get things approved because their Dad knew someone who sits on the board for Building Plans in MBPJ but you know what, this is Malaysia, you can say things like that but everyone is a small fry. I too know MO1. I just know him, but Im not his friend. You know ?

They had also said they were currently renovating a house in section 17 in Petaling Jaya, but this is not just a matter of renovations in our case, its also a total demolition and rebuild.

While I had given my original plans to them, they could have corrected me on the spot on things I was missing out on, and what was also required, more importantly what I was not complying with - which they did not.

So it just shows that when you are dealing with renovations in a house in Petaling Jaya, it is very important to know what you are talking about. Which we are glad we didnt work with them in the end.

We could have gotten ourselves into some major shit that would have costed more than 58,000 anyway because they were still missing out information. 

Another thing of new hipster firms are - why do you need 7 pages of documents to send a quote ? All you need is 1. At maximum 2. Unfortunately our hipster architect friends who love coffee and avocado and toast were just way too inexperienced for me and expensive.

There was too much of technical jargon that perhaps I could not understand from a 7 page quote. It was just way too much.

While they had also done by brothers house in Bukit Damansara, it falls under DBKL which is a township that has its approvals VERY fast.

Bottom line is this, mid range does not mean you will have the best of both worlds, you would still end up spending more if you are not careful. 

ARCHITECT 3

LOW RANGE ARCHITECT

This is where the Lowyatt crowd lies. When you ask them how much things would cost, even when you have your own plans that they can easily calculate on, and they go "between 40 - 50k lor".

So what the fuck lies in between ? The Caspian Sea ?

In business you need firm answers, and when you dont have firm answers, you get nowhere. So this was the cheapest that I had got which had a lack of thorough information.

When lowyatt folks do this and are not CLEAR enough, you know the cheapest will eventually cost more, and more, and more. So if I were you, never go for the cheapest. 

ARCHITECT / CONTRACTOR 4

BASTARD OF THEM ALL

This guy, lets just call him Mr. Justin, but lets not use any last names. This guy was the best. We waited for him the longest thinking he would be the best option for us. Turn out this chap is a class A bastard. Plus this guy actually knows my Mum in Law. But here goes the story.

This guy was away, waited for him to return, we told him what our vision was, gave him references and ideas too via email while waiting for him to meet us. We gave him 1 month in hopes that when we finally met, this was the chap that we were really banking on who would understand what we wanted.

During our first meeting we speak the same kind of style, and were off to a decent 1 hour start. Talking shit and cracking jokes, basically warming up to someone. Fucking waste of time.

During our first meeting, I realised that this guy didnt have the same vision of what I was describing all along in our email correspondences. I was looking to build an old fashioned looking building.

But he came back with a ballooned idea of having a huge house in a boxy design. To which my wife and I were puzzled. This fucker was missing the mark after giving him cues of what we wanted.

When he finally got it on his head, his appearance changed and knew what we were talking about. And here was a guy who was supposed to be at some intellect.

Clearing things up, we adjourned, and told him that by the way, my wife's Mum is so and so and you worked with her on a project before. So things became a little better as well at the end of the day.

I gave him my plans, and he was supposed to return in expectation with a basic Autocad plan in a couple of weeks.

What happened was that this guy just shat on EVERYTHING we had.

This guy was supposed to give us a drawing to which his architect had not done because his architect was not free. Fine.

So he drew a layout on Excel by arranging all row heights and widths and colouring different sections of the rough drawing on excel because it was to get an idea across. Its okay, I have got points presented to me in different ways before. I can see the effort.

Nothing was in a straight line when you had to walk through the house. Nothing at all. Nothing was straight forward. It was a shitty layout that was only understandable by rats that live in a complex sewer line.

Nothing had a direct way or clean way of simple human movement through the building. He said that it would cost RM 800,000 to execute his shitty sewer line layout built for rats.

I was shat on. And I had got my time wasted. I still didnt give up. I asked him to just follow what I had asked and quote me what things would cost.

He sends me a quote

Really ? 5 airconds and 6 fans at RM 10,000 ? Digging and concrete foundation RM 60k ? 

From this time, I didnt reply to any of his messages as he was wasting time and missed the mark after receiving this quote. To which I just said thank you for the quote. 

I knew at this time, this dude didnt fucking know what things cost, and perhaps its best he wastes someone elses time by smoking weed and shooting coke and walking the streets of Melaka City.

but I could not absolutely accept, which was the biggest surprise of all, was that he wanted a fucking payment for his shitty Excel drawing,..... 

..... and charged me RM 1,500.00 for it. 

Of course I didnt work out the finances. Not for his shit

Attached is Mr. Justins Invoice :-

This is a man who has missed the mark, ignored the budget, and wasted MY time instead of his, because he did not understand English. Class A mutt. I ignored this email.

A month passed and another email to remind me was sent. To which Mr. Justin said

"I hope you are not ignoring this" To which I whatsapp-ed the dude and asked for what is this Invoice for ? To which he says

"Basically For my time, travel, etc. and drawing done"

To which I said " I will call you" and call I did

There was a good shelling on both ends. This guy is a smart guy and had threatened me and said he will get me and cause problems if I had taken his ideas.

He actually said my drawings were shit. Literally. "Your drawings were shit anyway"

He had actually threatened and said "If you  had used any my ideas I will get some guys and make your life hard"

To which I said

"What did you just say ? Do you want to say it again for the record ? Is that a threat ?"

To which he backed off, but I asked again many times

"No, tell me what did you say again for the record" to which he said "We are already moving out of this topic and you are still going at it".... some chaps have only hot air.

But I told him, I would pay you but not RM 1,500.00 for your shit work.

But if you want money for your shit work, Then re write the Invoice as Drawing in Excel and will pay. Dont just Invoice it as " Drawings ".

To which this desperate thick skinned low standards man actually did with no shame. Re Invoiced me. Here is his amended Invoice :

You want me to pay ? Sure I can, and paid I did on the spot. i didnt even take 14 days. This was worth paying for to show you all and to share 

But who would pay for his piece of shit artwork ? Me. You know why ? Because this is what you get when you want others who are in the same circle of friends and colleagues to know about this class A mutt. 

Believe it or not, before paying RM 800.00 instead of RM 1500.00 I told him

" Your drawing could have been done by any immature kid, and its unprofessional for what you are asking for. In addition we have mutual people who we know "

I actually shelled this chap and said

" Next time why dont you just draw fucking Excel sheets and shake hands with people on the street and ask them for RM 1,500.00. This will make you rich and your business grow "

However this fucker in his original Invoice had mentioned "Drawings". But drawings in what ? Autocad ?

So I own the best 800.00 Excel sheet which is now mine as a good laugh for many years to come. Because his reputation will be amongst some of the most interesting people this country has to offer.

Never pay anything that is not signed. Simple as that. But this drawing now allows me to show how incompetent this chap is among certain individuals and mutual parties. Mutt and a half.

You would think you would do better especially by knowing high caliber people and this chap had the nerve to actually threaten ? Pariah and a half.

While others had given rough drawings in Autocad, this mutt was asking for some money for HIS time and for the drawings. 

When you get a guy who quotes RM 10,000 for airconds and fans, back away. Here is a low class chap. 

And I actually served this asshole coffee too. 

Bastard.

CONTRACTOR 1

His name is Mr. Alex

Mum in laws favorite contractor. Mr. Alex actually viewed our home while we were purchasing out home. This was just before the earnest deposit. 

This guy didnt accept my offer for buying my own materials to be supplied. He gave my wife the full attention while talking instead of the both of us. So that meant that he thought I was a fool and was not interested in what the man of the house had to say.

Let me tell you folks, for just adding half a floor for half a million, does this make sense ? This guy was axed immediately of our list. 

Greedy lowyatt at heart.

When did we meet him ? 

May 2016

How much for his idea and work ?

RM 300,000 to remain single storey. RM 500,000 for 1.5 storey. Bitch please, for that amount you are eating steak everyday and wont be there to supervise anyway.

CONTRACTOR 2

His name is Mr. Chong

Recommended by Recomm's website. this Contractor was from Puchong, a lowyatt young chap, quoted 280,000 to build the whole house. However, was missing things from machinery, and mentioned the workers had to stay at our own location. So this guy didnt have his paper work done right and missed the mark too.

If you are serious about your neighbors, and care about your premise, never get Indons to stay.

When did we meet him ?

November 2016

How much to execute our idea ?

RM 280,000. And just like lowyatt folks, was missing out on things like big time

CONTRACTOR 3

His name is Mr. Eric

You will hear him a lot in my rants later on.

Recommended by wifes friend, This guy spoke decent English, bumped into him once at a chinese shop as well. However this guy harasses my wife constantly cause lets face it, times are bad and this chap hounds to know if he can start work for us. This guy gave a 4 page quote to do our home up.

These are people who will continue to add, and add, and add and say "this one is missing, this one not included, this one dont have" and still took us for a ride thinking we were fools.

These are people who will show you things are cheap first like saying architect only 5k, and then will miss out deliberately a lot more information and work you will have to pay for such as :

1. Sewage line.
2. Drain Line
3. Armor Cable
4. Septic Tanks
5. Water Tank
6. Veranda
7. Car Park

The more paper work, the more you know things are not thorough

He gave though an Autocad of what my plans were. And he had an architect as well. But knowing lowyatt folks, in the end turns out that the Arhitects fee is only RM 5000.00.

So he must have the cheapest architect ever. Turns out I was right. And his architect was very wrong to just draw based on what I wanted. Lucky this didnt happen.

When we finally found our architect, the amount of corrections that were done for us compared to our plans that this contractors architect blindly drew clearly shows that this would have continously added more, and more and more fees from re submissions to many other missing things that were not included SUCH AS

1. Surveyor (RM 6k)
2. Soil Testing & Submission (RM 5.5k)
3. Architects Fees for drawing and submission (RM 27k)
4. MBPJ Consultancy and fees for runners submission, images etc etc etc (RM 8K)
5. Engineers Fee (12k)

There came a time when I messaged and asked as well a simple question. This is when I had already knew my answer from the architect we will be working with I asked him this :

"Are you sure our plans can be approved by MBPJ"

and he said  "YES"

So I asked him knowing very well that our plans couldnt be approved

"Are you sure ? Can you check with your architect what is required and based on my plans can they certainly be approved ?" and after deep pressuring one night, this guy finally cracked.

And he said he didnt know how hard it would be. I wish I had the conversation snapshot here but wifey had changed her phone and damn now I dont have the full conversation.

So folks, dont get suckered by lowyatt people, because you have to know your shit before others.

In addition, this contractor was clearly taking us for a ride. Which I will describe in another chapter when it comes to costings and building a Home.

His terms were also a joke. 40 % upfront, and then progressive payments. Clearly lowyatt people do this everyday and its okay with them. 

The most expensive, inexperienced with MBPJ. Charming, but couldnt take me for a fool. Lowyatt people though are more experienced than me and would deal with him. 

When did we meet him

March 2017

How much to execute our idea ?

Over 562,000 for double storey. But excluded Water Tank area, sub standard materials. But all using his materials.

350,000 if I had used my materials and his labor. PFFFFFT ! So raw materials cost 212,000 TO BUILD ? This here lies another lowyatt dude. At this rate I too should become a contractor.

CONTRACTOR 4

His name is Mr. Tan.

Sourced by my Mum, but the hungriest contractor that also is just like Contractor 2, harasses to get the job moving, cause for lowyatt people times are very good right to ignore small people like me ?

But anyway. For this chap, I really liked his style of thinking, behavior, and believe in himself, however price was a different matter. The dude cant read actually in English which was a problem which is okay with me because I have staff who cant read too but if our vision is strong, it can achieve better things than Mr. Justin. 

So this guy for Petaling Jaya said RM 80.00 per square foot for the building. Smaller jobs like the water tank area, patio, driveway, veranda RM 25.00 per square foot. 

This includes, wet works, form works, painting, laying of concrete and everything. This is more a guy of my style.

I laid out in front of him a single page template, no 4 pages of terms after terms, bla bla bla. 

1 page, full price. Simple. Here it is :

The template I made for this guy. Sometimes you can just jive with someone from the start, and Mr. Tan was one of them for me.  This was a simple way of doing things. No jargon of what every single thing would cost from labor to raw materials to picking up a fucking brick or shovel will cost. 1 page, simple answer, we get to see where we stand. No missing out on shit, its just how much will the building cost start till end.  Period

A few days later I receive a call from his Son in Law, you see, Mr. Tan cant read English. So its still fine with me, we can still speak malay. So his Son in Law actually helped him to source for an architect and to ask about the MBPJ Submissions etc.

This was the conversation that looked like someone was either desperate for money, or someone who just didnt know the right way to move forward

And that other house in ss3 he was talking about taking 1 year ? Had all sorts of illegal shit building right till the boundaries of things. Obviously MBPJ wasnt going to take things easy. So once again, if I was going to lose, so will everyone else. If I was going to win, I would have to pay for the right advise from the right person, who I would find eventually

This is the house below that this guy is talking about. You know why the guy probably took almost a year to get things approved ? Look at this. Look at the size of this thing and how many things are not being complied with. This is what happens when Cheras comes to SS3

Yummy 3 storey Cheras style !

Our process is one that even contractors dont know the true magnitude of what is required. But this guy is desperate for work and tried to persuade me to actually do some basic renovations instead. This chap above, still didnt mention things that I know today that were not included in the conversation.

Sorry dude, I really like you but at the expense of your own profit, I simply cannot move on with you for your short term goals. I would have to go on finding the right people to move with. 

When did we meet him

May 2017

How much to execute our idea ?

RM 80.00 per square foot for main building. RM 25.00 per square foot, simple structures and floor work. The raw materials WE supply, machinery and equipment is his. Simple

CONTRACTOR 5 (BONUS)

His name is Mr. Hoe

Recommended by Mum in law, This dude was the slowest. Clearly not hungry at all. But was equally or slightly lesser priced than Mr. Tan.

This guy has also projects in PJ that he has done. The last I spoke to him was about 6 weeks ago, but this dude clearly doesnt want to work. Here's his quote :

Another boring quote. Its like Air Asia, they will always catch you where you were supposed to know better like you build houses everyday like lowyatt people. 

My last conversation with him was what are the steps required by MBPJ and he has yet to get back to me. Even after CC'ing emails to wifey as well whose Mum is his client. This my friends, means that this guy has enough work.

When did we meet him ?

May 2017

How much to execute our idea ?

RM 280,0000

IN CONCLUSION

So you see, folks, this is how we have been spending time. Looking at architects etc. And while we had ourselves and ultimatum that we will move with a contractor and confirm things ourselves by May 31st 2017, it never happened. Just like how our SPA had expired by the time we had got our KTN 16A done.

Im sharing this experience above because lowyatt people dont go through what I have. They dont go through this especially in PJ and working with MBPJ and dealing with architects and contractors who dont know what they are talking about.

Every contractor will say Architects cost is RM 5,000. Contractors will always miss out on information and make certain things look cheap to tempt you.

Its only YOUR fault that you should know better how information should have been compiled to start you off on the right foot. That too with the knowledge of what things will cost and how to negotiate better.

The fault is simple only yours if you are not smarter or wiser than them.

But I am glad that we as a young couple, were not hasty and had this time of now 9 months before coming to some act of moving forward

Because after not finding any solution, and not finding anyone right, things now have taken a turn. 

It may have been now 9 months since we got out keys, now approaching 10, but we finally found the right Architect. 

I will continue to share my experience in the next chapter called Architect - Found the right one. 

Where you will know what I went through, and what it actually is required by MBPJ in order to get things approved.

The Idea of the Dream Home Plans

When we had picked up our keys, the ideas of our home  had come into play. I was already with a head start since May of 2016 with planning layout plans of how our home would look like one day.

Seriously, nothing really worth salvaging from this building. Looks nice but has a lot more potential

I thought I could detach a semi detached home but turns out you cant as you share a common wall with the neighbour. Plus the property as it stated on the Grant as a Semi Detached so thats what it had to remain as.

A very early rendering around June 2016. Something I thought I could do. Clearly the law had other plans

Lowyatt though on this occassion helped a little. Very little.

You see I had been planning on what kind of layout the home should have since May 2016 and have been obsessed with this till the extend I had a mental breakdown sometime in February in 2017 and had to take a 3 day break.

Early photoshop rendering of what I thought could be done. This was Option 1 somewhere in August or September 2016

This was a second option of what we thought we could do. This was Option 2. Somewhere in September or October 2016

Nights of drinking, nights of battling Venessa's, bank loans, horror stories, home planning for layouts and etc had taken its toll long enough.

When you have been thinking that long, you need a break. And when I took a break, I decided to do what ? Head over to Penang to look at the architecture of places. Yup, a break but not entirely a break. Still looking at buildings.

I know lowyatt folks will definitely take a break even if a pen drops to the floor and requires to be picked up. But it took me 1 year since May 2016 of constant thinking, daily, during work, and after work, and on Sundays to work my plans out. And Im still not done yet.

Staying in Lone Pine for a break. The building was redesigned by GDP Architects, who were the main architects. The hedges, lawn, slated windows, polished concrete floors, verandas, pillars, window sills, beams, mosaic tiled floors and everything felt that this is what I want. I knew this was what we were going for, bringing back something mid century to our property. Not something Industrial. These buildings have life and soul unlike the Industrial buildings.

If you are like me, and prefer to dictate things to what you want, then read on, otherwise, leave it in the hands of someone like an architect who will charge you well, to fuck your plans up and by re-submitting things again, and again, and again to MBPJ in order to get things approved. Which is why lowyatt folks have nightmare stories about MBPJ and how long it takes. Wrong documentation = time wasted.

MBPJ & HOME SETBACKS

When you are building a Home in Petaling Jaya. It is very important to know what Set Backs are. This determines firstly how far can you stretch your building. In our case, we have a semi detached house in Petaling Jaya and the setbacks are as follows :-


1. 20ft from the front (excluding car porch structure) & inclusive of 1st floor as well

2. 10feet from the side

3. 10feet from the back

4. If your neighbor is a single storey and you are converting into a double storey, you need a full recess on the 1st floor against the neighbors wall of 2 meters



Now look at your neighbours, do they have the same thing ? If not, its called Illegal. You can use this to your advantage too. But later on this.

However, more information on this, can be obtained from lowyatt. This is where some credit is due. But point number 4 above is unknown to lowyatt.

LAYOUT

Sometimes, a simple layout is the hardest. Simple things are harder than complicated ones. We decided on an open layout.  I wanted a clear line of view where the living, dining and kitchen, and back patio will have a direct uninterrupted view. The kitchen, has the biggest area downstairs, 20 x 15 feet. Thats because kitchens highly get the priority they deserve in Malaysia.

Never have I stepped into a home, or yet to step into a home in Malaysia that has has a clear line of view or priority placed on the kitchen.

Finally have something to work with here. Didnt want a shitty maximum greedily oversized property for "refinancing lor" purposes. I wanted a lawn, and everywhere you are, ground floor or upstairs, kitchen or even living, had a view of the lawn

Take any Malaysian home, and 95% percent have the same DNA from, Cheras, Puchong, Kepong, Setia Eco Park, Shah Alam, PJ, and for that matter everywhere. The Kitchen is always placed in the shittiest place without a view, without any additional value to having a pleasant time cooking with your splash back walls and the laundry area.

Yummy looking kitchen huh ? You could get this from Eco Park, where crooks love cooking against a wall and having the view of clothes being dried in the back

I decided that this had to change and the Kitchen has to face the garden. An equal if not the best view of all areas downstairs.

Did I do this for the wife ? Yes. Did I do this for me ? Yes. Do I want people to be amazed at how kitchens should be ? Yes.

Another issue with bedrooms is the view. And the view that I determined was to obtain the tree skyline that we have with the big trees grown around our neighbourhood. 

All bedrooms will not have a shitty view of just your neighbour that lives 10 feet away like how its done in Cheras, but rather you must have a view of the garden from above. The garden was going to be everything.

Another soul-less building. 

So once I had determined that these were the setbacks, we determined that fuck it, we are going to have a big lawn. 

Having a lawn, looks more expensive to me that how big and shitty a building can look while being unimpressive. 

TYPE OF HOME BUILDING STYLE

We were not going to build a Seksan, or Studio Bikin, Fabian Tan, Dr. Tan etc. Industrial styled building. No industrial hipster theme with raw concrete, bricks, and rusting shit with a tree inside, and trees outside with grass that has been removed to be replaced with gravel.

This shit is becoming more generic daily and every other lowyatt dude wants this. While Seksan in due respect had truly help make this style fashionable in Malaysia, it soon became a fad that had  spread faster than Gangnam Style.

The Industrial theme has been around now for a while, but nope, am not going to build this.

I know its nice to some, but its been done way too much. The industrial theme has become too saturated, everyone seems to have one of these nowadays.  I'd rather opt for a lawn than a pool or gravel or concrete floors

I had convinced the wife, that we should be going to a mid century 1960s Petaling Jaya style house.

Yes, Im going to build something new, that should have been there in the first place but never existed. No Lowyatt style 3.5 storey cheras houses here or any industrial theme at all.

Here are some of my inspirations, Lone Pine is one of them too of course :

Theres a difference between a House, and a Home. This to me, is a charming looking Home

Non of that shitty frangipanni, or bucida tree growing inside your House here. This is classic Mid Century Petaling Jaya Charm. This is my favorite looking Home in Petaling Jaya.

My second favorite home. Theres something about lawns, the design of the buildings from the stone work, pillars, beams and window sills that made things charming. This is probably what it feels like coming home in Petaling Jaya. When we first saw this home, my wife and I were outside admiring this beauty in in the car for so long even the owner came out. But I chickened out and drove away

As an insult to knowledge. This is called by lowyatt sounding folk as "Colonial". Pffft. Colonial isnt hipster as well, You fucking shit head. Thats what one architect called Lone Pine when Lone Pine was originally build by an Australian couple in the very early 20th century. Nothing colonial at all.

When things have moved to far forward, you have to move backwards. Gone are the days of building beams with some style. Ventilation blocks are making a come back, but in a Seksan Industrial way, which makes me want to puke. I would stick with Cement floors, but only if I could get Terrazo tiles where the granite flakes are 1/16" an inch in size.

Verandah ? Yes, for Vodkas, Whiskys, Beers and G&T's on Sunday and non of that Hendricks shite. And those Veranda tiles ought to be 4" in size, off white, tile and arranged in a diamond position. How about that ?

This is how detailed things are beginning to look.

However, if you are looking at a Seksan style building. By all means the industrial look works for you. It is cheaper, not more expensive. Its just not my style.

This is our dream here. However, if you are really serious as I am, you would know why a mental breakdown had occured from set backs, to type of style.

I even took the effort to see what will the actual floor be like by measuring in an open space the dimensions of the internal structure.

But if you are serious, try finding an open space like an open air car park, and use markers on the ground. Mark things out, get an idea of what things will be like at least by 85%. Yes this means taking a tape and measuring things out. You will be surprised.

Its one thing on Autocad, another thing in 3d, and a totally different thing in real life when you map things on a floor.

Because thats what I did

~ fin ~

The next topic will be about Architects and Contractors PRIOR to selecting the architect we are going with. I will describe the issues we had with them and what to look for and what not to look for. It had taken us almost 9 months to select the right architect. But we are finally moving in the right direction. But its not all fun unless you know what happened in between and with contractors as well for helping you narrow shit down further. Stay tuned

Lowyatt Folks

I have an obsession with Lowyatt people. Before I go on, Im just going to share a small point of view.

Lowyatt people have never once benefited me fully from start till end in any way. And it turns out while having some Sunday beers with a friend of mine, we agreed that a shit load of advise on lowyatt is really about :-



1. People guiding you through steps without proper information or knowledge

2. People who are trying to share horror stories of their problems without offering any solution

3. Solutions can be made with bribes or at over rated prices to anything you need



I have nothing against the people who created Lowyatt. I think its an excellent platform, a simple but effective one. However the people of the site are something totally different.

Never have the people benefited me or even my friend in any way. Its lousy advise, its in a nutshell junk words made by possibly people who have no clue or idea of what the reality of any situation requires such as the one I am in right now - Applying for home renovations at MBPJ for instance.

Annoyingly, Lowyatt does however show up on Google search whenever I am looking for answers and find that this is going to continuously lead people like me in the wrong direction.  Try looking up for MBPJ renovation home Set Backs, lowyatt is there, it helps a little, but not thoroughly to what are the real and true guidelines are.

Try this on MBPJ's website and its hard to find. But lowyatt folks are always there.

Do I have an account with Lowyatt ? Why dont I post there if I can help ? Well because why should I ? If you have discovered this, I hope my information and sharing it here will benefit you more and filter out the shit thats going through your life than reading junk thats posted on lowyatt.

So you get a bunch of dumb fools, advising other dumb fools, with information read by more dumb fools, me inlcuded, who go through advise taken from lowyatt, and then find out that you met another lowyatt type of person who also does not have full and thorough information.

Until, you disconnect completely and find someone else who is older and wise enough to advise you on what is right.

And when this happens, you really find that sharing such correct and pristine and valuable information among idiots is just simply a waste of time. I can only hope that if you do come across this, and if you are looking for some answers in further detail, this MAY help.

For the meantime, lowyatt is a good website. But the fools on there while describing things as easy as 1,2,3 are missing point 1a, 1b, 1c, 2, 2a,2b, 3a and other points in between.

Information is valuable. It helps people grow. In this case, lowyatt folks to me have still not grown.

Next up, Dream Home Plans

~fin~

After Keys, Its Paper Work Again

No that we have had the time to sink in that we have picked up our own home, we had decided that we were NOT going to live in it.

The plan was to tear the building down, and rebuild it due to its value which had no interest to us. But as the Subject is, we had to do more paper work in order to move on with our change in ownership.

So here is a list of things you must change to yours from your Sellers name in hierarchy :

1. MBPJ / Your local town council. Most important. Do this within the first month. Its for Assesment Tax / Cukai Taksiran. Failing to do this you could end up with a fine as well.

2. Electricity TNB

3. Water SYABAS

4. Telekom

5. KWSP

In our case we didnt need to inform Telekom just yet as we were planning on demolishing anyway so its fine.

I will break down to you what needs to be done further and what will be needed in order to get your shit sorted.


But even before moving on, I would advise you that PLEASE get these important documents ready, especially for your KWSP withdrawal. Ask these documents to be CTC-ed (Certified True Copy) by your Banks Lawyers :-

1. Geran / Grant

2. KTN 16A

3. KTN 14A

4. Letter of Acceptance for Loan Approval

5. Loan Facility Document (The Agreement you had with Banks Lawyers)

The other documents like the SPA, you would already have it by now.

STEP 1

MBPJ / Your Local Town Council. Change your name of Ownership

Do this first before moving on with Tenaga and Water, get your name changed as soon as you have your KTN 16A and Geran. You will have to pay Cukai Taksiran / Assessment Tax. Your name will be updated in the local Town Council

You will need to call the town council and ask them for a Borang 1 which is NOTIS JUALAN ATAU PINDAH MILIK. In MBPJ This is called a Borang 1. 

So you will call MBPJ or your local town council and ask the receptionist who do you speak to when you need to inform the town council of your new home you have bought and wish to change the name in their files and system so it matches yours. 

You will need to go to MBPJ and bring the following things before filling out Borang 1. Make a copy of these documents for them

1. Copy of Geran 

2. Copy of SPA

Upon filling out Borang 1, it will take about 1 week for them to update their system before you are in.

We filed ours very late, in May 2017. Very close to being 1 year from the date of the SPA signing.

Because we didnt change our names it had in MBPJ that the property still belonged to the previous owner. The previous owner had to pay on our behalf first for Cukai Taksiran. We owed the previous owner a couple of hundred bucks which we have paid. A notification came from our Lawyer

Why is this important ?

You will need to pay your Assesment Tax / Cukai Taksiran which happens once every 6 months. 

What if you dont change your name ?

You could be fined up to RM 2000.00 and the previous owner will still have to pay. 

How long did the whole procedure take ?

Fast. Approximately 10 minutes when you fill up the form, do a little thumb print, etc. 

STEP 2

ELECTRICITY / TENAGA NASIONAL 


Sort these fellas out first

What do I need to bring to Register my new meter ?

1.Geran and

2.SPA Copy.

3.Copy of your IC as well.

They will ask you :

Rumah jenis ape nie ?

This is very important. Because Tenaga is stupid. After telling them our property was a semi detached they still fucked it up and inserted a Bungalow.


How much will it cost ?
When the wife was paying for the deposit they asked RM 1,000 plus. But after clarifying its a single storey semi detached, it came down to something like RM 400 or so. So read these dudes carefully as well.

TNB are the biggest leeches of all overheads with dishonest bills.

So make sure you know the type of house you have because the deposit will depend on if its a single storey, or double, terrace, semi detached or bungalow.

Our previous apartment had 2 units of 1HP airconds, and only 3 lights were used with 1 fan, 1 medium fridge and a microwave. Yet our bills would cost RM 190 on average even when we were only in the apartment Monday to Saturday from 8 PM till 10 AM Daily. Dafuq ?

This is another important question

What happens if I dont change my name ?
Within 2 weeks, you will arrive home and discover your Electricity Meter gone. Tenaga Nasional will come by quietly and remove your meter and when you arrive home to turn on the power, its not there anymore. Tenaga is faster at removing meters than setting up new ones and supplying you electricity.

Why does this happen ?
Because your previous Owner has terminated his / her / their contract with TNB. You will need to start a new one with TNB. Hence TNB Removes the meter and until you call them and pay your deposit for your new meter, thats it folks, no power. I discovered this the hard way and blamed our guards for not seeing my meter stolen. Turns out I was the fool because I didnt know thats what TNB does. But lowyatt people know this everyday because they own 10 or more properties from Cheras to Puchong.

How long will it take to register an account ?
The process of going to TNB is a nuisance always in itself. You will park and head into TNB where loads of people wait for your number to be called. TNB is also known occasionally for System Failure. Wife went twice before getting to register the account. It takes about 1 hour here and with their stupidity of thinking we own a Bungalow like lowyatt people.

Well, an hour isnt so bad, its just that its TNB, rude, incompetent, lack of knowledge over the phone and just all around, unpleasant experience.


How long will it take for them to install a new meter and receive electricity ?
Fucking long. TNB says 1 week, but you will have to have the patience of 2 weeks for them to install the meter in. It took us 2 weeks and even nagging to get things moving. We had to chase till the point of getting the person in charge of installing our meters handphone number as well.

No power ? Nothing moves. Not even your heater.

This is why in hierarchy, TNB is Number 1 for Overheads. Sort these fellas out first.

STEP 3

WATER / SYABAS 

Some hate them, Im ok with them

Same story as well, bring your Geran and SPA Copy. But, bring a copy of your IC as well.

But these guys are the easiest of them all.

Make sure you know the type of house you have because the deposit will depend on if its a single storey, or double, terrace, semi detached or bungalow just like TNB. 

How much will it cost ?

Depends on what you own as a home. In general believe the deposit is RM 90.00 with a Stamp Duty or RM 2.00 and a bit of GST as well. Keep it at RM 100.00

How long will it take to update ?

By your next bill. Its the easiest

What happens if I dont change my name ?

You will have no water supply to the house. Same as TNB, previous owner will cancel their contract.

STEP 4

TELEKOM

Not much to say here

Well cant say much here except I guess you will need your CAT 5 plug ready for Unifi. Get your electrician to sort this out first. Call TM and make sure to let them know a week before your CAT 5 is installed I guess.

STEP 5

KWSP

Can be dungu's, but at the same time, meet the right chap, all is fine. Get your SPA, Geran and KTN 16A Ready and CTC-ed by Lawyers too.

Now considering that we had forked out a shit load of money (sorry, property tycoons and lowyatt folks its cheap lah 633k for you guys), we had to get something back from what we spent on. 

If you do choose to withdraw from EPF/ KWSP here are the documents you will need to bring when you are submitting your claims. 

This by the way is ONLY for people who have bought a house WITH a bank loan. And if you have shared the property purchase with your spouse then a set of the following copy for spouse as well :-

First, head over to KWSP and then request for a form for PENGELUARAN MEMBELI / MEMBINA RUMAH. Fill this form out and prepare the following documents next for submission:-

1. IC 

2. Full Copy of SPA - Cover to Last Page.

3. Bring Original SPA for checking as well - Only for verification

4. CTC (Certified True Copy) of your KTN 16A (Kanun Tanah Negara - GADAIAN) This is your title with the bank you borrowed money with to say You and the Bank own your property

5. KTN 14A - Pindah Milik. This is to say your property has been changed from the previous owner

6. Loan Agreement With Bank CTC'ed by your Banks Lawyer (for them to see the Lot No. etc with address and your names)

7. KWSP Withdrawal form for Account 2 form. Obtained at KWSP itself.

*** At any time, if the officer who checks you asks for any questions, call your lawyer on the spot. Your lawyer has a duty to provide you with any documents missing or not submitted ***

How long will this take ?

At EPF Petaling Jaya, the process took about half an hour. However the system failed 2 times before so we could not go twice. I went 4 times prior because I didnt know that I needed a CTC by our banks lawyer because it was not given to us. 

It took us 2 days before we received these documents from them.Why ? Because they thought we are lowyatt people who have more than 10 properties I guess ? What were they thinking !

How long will this take ?

An officer will be behind his / her desk and will assess your documents for approval. Once he or she is satisfied with your documents, you will be asked to do a thumbprint. Your thumbprint will be done the old fashion way on rubber ink pads and then thats it. Do this with your spouse. It takes about 10 minutes for the kind officers to look through your documents and thumbprint you. Thats it. 

How long will it take before the money is banked into my account ?

Within 2 weeks. We got ours thankfully in 5 days. Kudos KWSP.

~ fin ~

All in all, it had taken us about 7 months to get things working well. A little longer than lowyatt folks and property websites who know better, but I guess thats what the real fucking situation is I guess. Cause lowyatt folks only work from 10 - 4. 

If you really took 3 days off just to really sort your shit out with MBPJ, Tenaga, Syabas, KWSP and Telekoms, it COULD be done but in reality, it depends on "System Failures" as well.

I hope that you will have a better chance than us getting these documents in order. 

Next up, more juice Lowyatt stuff. If you are planning on renovating in PJ, this stuff will be juicy as we are not in July 2017 and have been waiting to tear down this building for a while. 

I will share with you all the horrors that lowyatt folk tell you and the rules lowyatt folk tell you when renovating and why its TRULY hard to get things approved by MBPJ for home renovations. Stay tuned. 

Getting Loan Approved, Handing over the Keys

GETTING LOAN APPROVED

Time was running out, Venessa from Affin didn’t help. 

We signed the SPA at the end of June and now its the end of August 2016. Time was running.

But,Citi Bank with Wifeys application, luck had changed for the better. I received an exciting call from her while at work saying "We got a loan approval !" I was so happy I screamed. I asked her
over the phone how much was the interest, was a  bit more but was okay with me. We had a home loan approved ! After all the stress building up and getting rejected, the tides had finally changed and we were now getting to an Awesome state.

The pressure came off the shoulders and things felt good. By this time, it was in the 3rd week of August, coming up to 2 months running into the SPA. The banks would take another month to sort things out too. So we were running very close the the SPA's expiry.

Citi Bank had a nice way of doing business. They looked at our documents, and moved forward quicker than any other bank. I didnt have to submit any additional stupid documents, no site visit by them either. No need for images of my work place, or why my payments didnt come in occasionally on time.

They moved forward first with our documents, and while waiting for a formal Loan Approval Letter they also gave us this 1 AND ONLY form to sign. The rest was filled by them. This was to select the prefered lawyers we would like from Citi Bank for our loan approval documents. Now this was ease and comfort of moving forward.

They meant business, and so did we. No bullshit. We had a firm answer and a quick one. No filling up of 5 pages of forms and shit here that asks whats your EPF contribution every month, your salary, etc like the other banks.

 

The only Citibank Document we had to Fill Up and Sign

This was the document that we signed to select our preferred banks lawyers for the signing of the loan approval documents in the week or so that followed. I truly liked how they moved forward first while awaiting for the Loan Approval Letter to come out. This is how business ought to be. 1 page, not 5 like Affin or Public Bank. We sign, the bank does the rest. Thats how customers ought to be treated. 

Citi Bank came to our aid with an offer letter of 899,000. Which of course was way lower than what we expected for a 90% Home Loan. 

Why ?

Because Citi Bank is Global. It consolidates its losses with its other countries it invests in. 

So why didn’t HSBC work out ? Well HSBC is as it turns, may be on its way out from Malaysia.
But Lowyatt folks already knew that right ?

In a time of crisis, DEAL with International Banks. International Banks will invest in property for bad times and make money. Local banks do this when times are good.

Shallow thinking before, clear and aware now.

Did you get a 90% loan ?

NO.

Because they don’t have to follow local rules. So kudos Citi Bank and the Wifey !

However Citi Bank, your loan though was heaven sent, gave us thought.

A loan offer was made at 890,000 on our 1.33 Million property. Which was lower than our interest of 90% margin of financing offered by MO1's banks. To this, the loan repayments would have costed us a whopping 4,500.00 a month. Which was basically saying, we stab you with many small cuts till you  have a slow and painful death. Which I could not accept.

While my wife was very excited and things were hot on the plate. I simply could not stomach the fact that 4,500 a month would be a detriment to our savings in the future and having to live modestly. Its 2017 and times are tougher, a lot can be done with 4,500.00

She too encouraged to take the loan offer and be done with it. Perhaps she too was feeling that time was running out and it was now or never. However, having some Vodka that night I had to say that the repayments were way too high at RM 4,500.00 a month.

And if the banks were going to stab us at this kind of interest, we had to stab back too. So we decided that a RM 700,000 loan would be what we will need. This was all discussed in a matter of probably half an hour and letting the wife sink in that the loan amount had to now have a bigger "differential sum" in order for us to live more comfortably within our means for the future. 

In the end, what will 3,500.00 be valued at in 5 years compared to 4,500.00. We will be getting out of a strain faster at 3,500.00 than 4,500.00 a month. If banks would like to drain you because that is how they make money, then dont let them win. 

Its better to loose in the short run and recover in the long run. Never let banks screw you. Its either you get what you are promised, or you offer what you want.

Banks, as mentioned, rely on us, we should not rely on them. Never feel thankful to a bank, money comes to them, they never look for you. Its like a customer walking straight to your doorstep without having to knock on doors to find one. Be the customer. Know what your value is. 

We dont need to eat steak everyday like lowyatt folks who claim they eat modest chicken rice everyday like me. Perhaps once every 2 weeks a steak or a nice dinner will be fine. And with 4,500.00 a month, thats a lot of money and we cant even have steak once a month.

So after a hard discussion over some Vodka, I laid it out that its stupid to be repaying that kind of money on a Single Storey. And we agreed that we will make a counter offer knowing well we will pay an ever greater differential sum to the Seller.

So the wife made a phone call and said "Thank you very much, but what we want is RM 700,000.00 for a Home Loan"

Even our Lawyers got a shock. Thats almost half the house, paid in cash. Were we broke ? Yes. 

Here is the letter we had then had to send to the Seller. We contacted the property agent and our Lawyer and forwarded this letter. The Seller told us to send this letter to our lawyers as well. You can imagine the shock of the lawyers.

We paid in the end RM 633,000 in cash, for our first home. Is that what you call being fair to a first time home buyer ? We had to borrow to get these funds as well. Talk about property and bank websites offering 90% Margin for Home Loans ? Balls. Happens in lowyatt world though and online property websites and bank websites. This is the real world. This is Malaysia. This is the truth that no one wants to hear.

Look folks, if the banks want to squeeze your balls, ensure that they are going to loose too. It can only be a win-win. Or everyone looses. 

Can you imagine the kind of investments we could have made ? We could have been lowyatt folks too. We could have put in a downpayment for another 2 apartments as an Investment. But this is our Home.

The tone of the Home Loan agent had changed. And although cheap tactics such as "We will need to redraw the home loan offer amount and could take another 10 working days...." was mentioned, its still better than moving on with life with 4,500.00 monthly. I knew as well that time was running out and so we wrote a bold statement to our lawyer saying 

We will pay a differential sum of 449,000 now, and in return, we are awaiting for the banks to approve our loan as times are tough. So please do not charge us if its beyond 3 months after the SPA's expiry date.

I know lowyatt folks, its fart in the wind with their 10 properties that they own. Because they are rich, but not me. That money did not grow on trees. We saved and borrowed and when you are in this deep of shit, desperate measures had to be taken. 

So finally, after a week, the Loan Offer was redrawn, the Home Loan Agent didnt get a bigger greedier cut than she was expecting and what happens next ? You sign the loan documents.

August 29th 2016. 2 months after SPA, and telling the banks to change to loan amount, we had our loan offer letter ready. We now had to chase for the banks to get the Loan Approval Document ready. We had to tell our lawyers as well, that we had received the offer and were now waiting for the banks to get back to us with the "Facility Agreement" document we needed to sign to then disburse the loan to the Seller. Stressful times.

Here are questions you may have :

Where do I sign the loan documents ? :

You will head to EITHER the Home Loan Branch where the Banks lawyers will be waiting for you

OR

The banks Lawyers office 

What happens there ?

You will submit your IC and then be given a Wet Gel pen to sign a shit load of pages for your Loan Approval Document. In this case Facility Agreement as shown below. Its like applying for a car loan.
Its something like 100 pages or so. You will do a lot of flipping of pages and signing on them.

Documents signed, we then sent an image immediately to our lawyer to tell the Sellers Lawyer that some money will be coming in soon to the Seller. This was to ensure the Seller we have our loan sorted and were ready now to pick the keys soon. Do this immediately upon signing

What do I do after I have signed the loan documents ?

Take a picture of the front page, back page, and a couple of pages where you have signed the loan documents, send this immediately to your Lawyer

Why ?

So you can collect your keys. This is important as well so that your lawyer and the Sellers lawyer now know that the loan has been approved, and to ensure that things are running well. So the Seller now just has to wait for the money.

What happens now ?

1. You wait for Your Lawyer and the Banks Lawyer and the Sellers Lawyer to make arrangements for disbursing the funds to the Seller of the property.


2.This is where KTN 16A (Kanun Tanah) needs to be produced. Not KTN 14A, but KTN 16A which basically is your Title of the property belonging now to YOU. This will be another trip to the Land Office by your lawyer. where the Title of the property will have your spouses name.

30th September 2016. Just 3 months after signing the SPA, the KTN 16A was produced. This is

KTN 16A. This is where your title of the property says you are the owner of the property at the Land Office. Congratulations, you have now gone through a name change. Now you will pay for Cukai Tanah as well. You will need a Certified True Copy by the Banks Lawyers. Ask for this fast. You will need it for your EPF withdrawal as well.

3. Your GERAN / Grant will also need to be produced. This will also happen at the Land Office. The Grant will mention that the land belongs to YOU and the Banks in our case Citi Bank.

The front page of your Grant

The grant clearly mentioning our names with the Banks as well

The originals for the Geran and KTN 16A will be kept by the Banks till you one day settle off your loan. The Geran / Grant, just like your car, will be given to you after / sometime when you have paid more than a decent share of the property, usually exceeding the 60% mark.

How long will this take ?

Between 2 to 3 weeks.

What do I do meantime ?

Set an intended date for collecting your keys

Who will give me the keys ?

Unlike in the States, its customary for the Seller and the Buyer to meet when handing over the Keys to the owner. In Malaysia, your lawyer will collect it for you and will hand it to you when all money has been disbursed to the Seller. 

HANDING OVER THE KEYS FINALLY

Your lawyer will meet you at your new Home, where he will hand over the keys to you on a nice Sunny afternoon, and when you open the gates, he will ruin shit that has been playing in your head since the time you had a faint memory of "what will it be like one day getting the keys to my Home ?"by being probably the first person to step into your Home. This happened on the 13th of October 2016. I couldnt help but laugh when moments like this, Husband and Wife, trying to soak in a moment, get ruined by a lawyer who possibly has no thought or regard of First Time Home buyers appreciating their hard earned effort of owning their first property, their first Home.

Well Congratulations, this is how you own a Home in Malaysia

If you have been reading this so far, Theres a new Saga that will be coming up and it will involve Renovations. This will be even more extensive than getting a Home Loan.

But before that, a post getting your keys of things in the home and paper work you will need to do when you have bought your Home.

Theres some annoying paper work that needs to be done, while nothing great but its important to get your Home in order first.