Contractors - Finding one, and What to look for, The process to start work

Why is this post required. Is it going to be long ? Yes, very. VERRRY long.

Why cant I simplify it ? Because its 3 years of looking at contractors. Sorry, Im not like lowyatt kids, I had taken a really hard road here less traveled. No "pm on de side 4 contractor info" or "I reco 4 u dis guy" or "tell him _______ reco 4 u". Have seen the bad, the worst, ugly and the BEST for me. So this is a whole 3 year journey, with some statistics and to what I think, deserves a freaking long post explaining my process.

As I write this, its now the 1st of July 2019. Time has flown since my last posting and while my approval for MBPJ's temporary licence began on the 20th of May 2019. it looks like it will be August before work can actually start. Perfect if we can get the ground floor slab poured before end of September - December rains come. Yes, you will need to have some knowledge of studying the weather patterns here as well, and accuweather is not going to help. Because unlike in Perth, Australia, where the weather is as accurate within 15 to 30 minutes, Malaysia's meteorological department and its equipment is pretty fucked up and it only tells you there's rain or thunderstorms when it actually happens. Conclusion : accuweather in Malaysia will not help, Experience will. Study the clouds and skies.

So what have I been doing since May ? Looking at contractors. Thats why its slow. I could have made this quicker by appointing one around the time I was halfway getting my approvals for Building Plans at MBPJ in April. However, I would advise you NOT to be hasty. Take your time on this. I would suggest seeking a loan approval once you have about 3 quotes in from contractors. Getting a loan would be crucial if you are going to be on the scale of things I am about to embark on. 

This posting is on my experience and journey with contractors so far. It may not be the same as yours, because lowyatt hipsters who have God status on chat rooms clearly are wiser than me, but Ill just blog here about what to look for when it comes to Contractors.

BEFORE YOU FIND A CONTRACTOR (***Update 12 July 2019***)

Before looking at a contractor you, ask yourself if you are building a lowyat "reno" kind of small scale job by extending just your kitchen, or are on the same scale or even doing something bigger than I am. I met all the contractors below and one of the best one has given me the best advise. Keep reading because if you are in my case such as demolishing and rebuilding, you are going to want to read this first. This is going to piss off some contractors too.

Before you find a contractor or engage in one, you will need to get

A) Employ a Quantity Surveyor for a Bill of Quantities (BQ / BOQ) Costs could be from 6.5 for independent ones - 40k as well for established and certified ones. So fish around. If you do this, the BQ is yours and you give it to your contractor to ask them to quote based on the Bill of Quantities.

OR

B) Ask your Contractor if they already have their own in house Quantity Surveyor. This is even better. Then ask them that are they willing to let you have a look at the Bill of Quantities before making a decision on the contractor. If they refuse, tell them its ok. Please go have some avacado toast and steak medium rare for all they want. You just want to clarify if all the things in their Bill of Quantities are correct.Quantity Surveyors will also specify how long the project will last for. If you want, you can even tell the Quantity Surveyor you want a project completed by a given time and stipulate reasons for delay. Now you got yourself in good hands.

Maybe lowyatt people know about this, but I sure as hell have seen no one advising about this because their valuable God Status and Information comes at the price of "pm me on de side"

So before you go looking for a contractor like me, get a Quantity Surveyor first. Believe it or not, after going through all sort of contractors since 2016, a meeting with the last contractor had asked the most valuable question "Do you have your own QS ?". Maybe thats why my journey has taken me such a long time huh ? Doing things correctly as best as I can and Going against the lowyatt grain. To teach you hopefully what is correct.

1. FINDING A CONTRACTOR

Now I used 5 methods of finding contractors. These are the 4 ways I used :-

Religious establishment (2 People Met)

Knowing someone from your religious establishment such as a mosque, temple, or church may be an interesting way that you could use for finding a contractor who had built your house of worship. There was a temple recently that got built in Sunway. So I decided to ask that very same contractor for a quote. These people will also have in most cases a valid requirement to be CIDB Certified in order to construct legal buildings. Especially new ones nowadays.

Family & Friends (3 People met in 2017)

I try avoiding this method as 

a) Family as much as we love them, sometimes have their own way of thinking whats best for them. Especially siblings. 

b) Friends - Even worse, which is how a contractor called Mr. Eric who was not even CIDB certified quoted in 2017 prices reflective of 2019. Why jeopardize any friendship if shit goes wrong. I would stay away from this option unless your friends contractor is pretty fuckin good.

Yes, our good friend Mr. Eric, not even CIDB Certified, speaks good English and recommended by a friend of ours. 2 years later, turns out he was a real crook and his work was shit according to our friend. We were lucky that we took the long road by going legal, now we know why shitty lowyatt Krystal at 3pm hipster brats get themselves into shit and chat about it in chat rooms, worrying other people in the process without providing for a solution. I wonder what happens to people like this when they find solutions. Clearly they post about it in forums, otherwise we will all have solutions today wont we ?

Driving by your neighborhood (2 People Met)

I find this to have worked the best. At a glance, I found a contractor that was doing work within the neighboring area of section 14 in Petaling Jaya. I could judge his work, and view if he was certified and doing the right thing. Its comfortable knowing that this is your own personal decision, and no one else who is imposing ideas onto you. If shit goes wrong, thats your own selection and insult to your ego and knowledge. 

Online - Recommend, Kaodim, Lowyatt hipster postings (3 People met)

The most annoying way. You get quotes that are way beyond your expense and tattoo hipsters worried about the latest cement price going up.

Note the sad face

Oh noooo, lowyatt people are going to face 50% increase. Lets lay down and die shall we ?

Let me tell you something. A chicken rice contractor who I met from a house being developed in section 14 had this to say when I asked hime about the recent 50% price increase in cement :



"What price increase ? Its been up for a long time now already. No difference. Been paying for this so called new price for long time already. Cement is around 18 ringgit a bag already for a long time". 



So ? What are hipsters talking about ? You could still give this option a shot. Try the Online and see if that works for you. Im not telling you not to, but it has not worked for me.

Ahhhh, my favorite kind of contractors. Chicken Rice Contractors

CIDB Website
Finally, you could look at the CIDB Website which to me is also a damn good way of searching for contractors. Something I did not do, however this site will already provide you with valid certified contractors. Please use this option and forget the lowyatts. (Lowyatters ? Lowyattees ?)
I Highly would recommed (hahaha, get it, recommend) this method. This is the real world stuff. Not artificial fluffy shit that will not make a difference to your life on forums and chat rooms.

If this is too much a long read 4u bcos u wan pm on de side, please ignore this blog and head over to your best advise on chat rooms and forums. Please do not waste your time. This is not a place for the weak hearted. However, if you would like to know what I have done, please read on till the end :) This is simply my space to share what I believe is the right way people should be heading in.


Lets do some maths now shall we ?



BAI, HOW MANY CONTRACTORS YOU CONTACTED / MET ?

3 from online
2 from around the neighborhood
3 more from my wife online
1 from a factory being built across from our factory
2 from temple
1 from a friend
5 from 2017
1 from 2016
2 from Last Minute in 2019

Thats a total of 20 for you by the way if you can do maths. 

BAI, HOW MANY CONTRACTORS YOU SAW LA ?

2/3 from Online.
5/5 I met in 2017
1 from 2016 (verbal 150k for Single Storey, 350k 1.5 Storey)
2 from neighborhood
2 from temple
0 from friend
1 from factory across from my factory
0 from wifeys Online requests responded
1/2 from Last Minute in 2019

Thats a total of 14 for you by the way if you can do the maths.

BAI, HOW MANY QUOTES DID YOU RECEIVE ?

6 in 2019
4 in 2017 (invalid now, as they were ALL useless as well, and ALL not CIDB Certified)
1 from 2016

Thats a total of 11 for you if you get your maths right

BAI, WHO RESPONDED  AFTER REACHING OUT TO ALL OF THEM ?

2 from Recommend (Online)
2 from Neighborhood
2 from Temple.

Thats 7 for you in 2019, 4 in 2017. However, good to keep prices from 2017 as its a good benchmark to compare with. Especially looking back at how stupid and naive we were.

Thats also fucking 7 / 11 people reached out to in 2019. Thats a 65% response rate that we received in 2019. Business must be good for the balance 35% of contractors NOT to respond.

Clearly 2017 was better as 4/5 or 80% responded with quotes. Must have been a bad year for contractors to be desperate and work hard in 2017.

Clearly Contractors may not appreciate my money, maybe cause Im not worthy of their Krystal at 3pm time, escargots cooked with garlic, olive oil and chives, with Tenderloin 300 grams cooked Medium Rare for your main course, served with Jus and creamy rich mashed potatoes with truffles on top.

I would suggest to cut the shit and look at either people ACTUALLY doing work around your area or religious establishments.

2. WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR IN CONTRACTORS

a)CIDB Certified

Make sure this shit is done right. I cannot stress upon this any more further than this is the correct due diligence done by your dumb ass to do. When you meet a concractor or contact them, the first thing you should do is ask them straight forwardly if they are CIDB Certified. Otherwise, you are wasting your time waiting for them to respond because they wont. Check and see for validity of their licence.
Wanna know if someone is legit and valid ? Use this link below

http://cimsapp.cidb.gov.my/SMIS/regcontractor/reglocalsearchcontractor.vbhtml

Dont be a certified champ Mr. Eric asking for 562,000.00 and then with a look at the DIDB website this is what happens :

As you can see, Mr. Eric was nowhere to be found

And how much again was he asking for in 2017 ?

Yes, RM562,000.00 onlyyyyy. So naive, young and stupid we were. God had other plans for us I guess

What it should look like will be like this :

Click on where it says Display / Papar to view more details of who you would like to engage with

Yes, now this is what we want. Genuine certified contractors from CIDB. Here is a good example of one that I have narrowed down to. This is the guy from one of the Temples. However, lowyatt folks on forums and chatrooms will always recommend this right ? Especially lowyatt hipsters who leave a handphone number and a contact name and say "Tell him _____ reco 4 u" or if you have been following my blog, my favorite thing to read "pm me on de side". Pffffft. Really ? Are you that much of a fuckin legend ? Try the CIDB Website first alright ? Dont be naive and stupid. This is your way of being an adult to search for stuff legitimately. 

So if you have someone like a Mr. Eric or Eng Hoe who asks you for serious money. Ask them if they are CIDB Certified in the first place and do a check online. Otherwise just move on. 

Also another thing to note, with CIDB, there are grades for contractors. They go from G1 - G7. Like in the case above, this guy is a G7 grade. 

For a simple explanation, 

G1 is allowed to do contracts up to RM 200,000.00

G2 up to RM 500,000.00

G3 up to RM 1,000,000.00 (something Mr. Eric and Eng Hoe should be classified in, but are NOT certified with CIDB)

G7 means you can handle any project, There is no limit. If you want more information, go online and read about this. Im sure you will definitely find it on your favorite forum of all time :)

***NOTE *** :

A lot of people fall in between the G2 and G4 range. From hipsters to simple contractors as thats where the lowyatt folks range will lie in. You will realise as well that their quotations will be limited to a particular price as they would like to fall within certain project cost limits based on their Grading applied for CIDB, who will then charge you later for seperate bills for other items missing from the quote to keep their billings within range. One contractor missed out on our Raft Foundation, Wall Plastering, Crusher Run, Screeding and a few other items to keep costs low. I understand why, but thats why this guy fell in a RM 468,000.00 in his quote. Later, costs would have been above RM 500,000.00. Something to note.

b)Work they are doing

When you drive around your neighborhood or neighboring areas, this will be the best way. Are they renovating or rebuilding ? Whats their craftsmanship like ? What methods are they using to put things together ? The tools, equipment and methods used for the buildings they are making, mean a lot.

When you look at online folks, you will never know if the projects they have done such in my case for  a total demolish and rebuild. Their reference projects could simply be an extension to what is already existing or the real deal. Perhaps if you are looking at contractors online, I would ask you to view their on going projects on site.

NOTE ::: This now becomes NO DIFFERENT than meeting ordinary drive by around your neighborhood contractors. However, Online hipsters WILL respond to you for a quote which is a plus point when it comes to comparison for your decision making time.

c)Are they asking YOU to work with THEM, or THEM work with YOU

I met a contractor from Recommend who asked me to allow his workers to stay to which I said I already posted online saying no one is allowed to stay on sight. I also mentioned this is a gated community at night and its guarded so no one is allowed to stay. To which his reply way 

"Because worker can take care of equipment" 

....to which I said 

"This neighborhood has had no theft, robbery and other cases since 2016. Its posted at the guardhouse white board for everyone to pass by as proof on their board. And after all you build a shed, pad lock it with chains and store your goods, whats so hard ?" 

And he never bothered to return with a quote. In his email he said he would get back to us within 2 weeks, its now been over 2 months.

Goes without saying, that if you didnt bother in the first place to read the conditions I had posted online, and asking me to bow down to your pathetic request, you clearly are not meant for the job. Know that YOU are the customer, not THEM. House rules. Ok ? Clearly stated. So if you dont read, then thats not your time that has been wasted, its MINE.

This same contractor told ME to meet HIM at a time that was convenient for HIM. Clearly I just carry money in my pocket without a day job and my moneys purpose is best suited to be to be given to him. Fucking retard.

And for Hipster contractors, whats it with their love for sitting down for coffee ? I asked them to meet me at a Chinese Coffee Shop. Screw 18 ringgit coffees at hipster cafes. This topic is a little long in my description, because first impressions will naturally set the tone of ANYONE. Im sorry, I believe in certain principals of what people carry. 

If YOU are a supplier to a customer, and if YOU cant make a date requested by the customer, the least you can do is simply explain in a humble way why you cant make it to a date or time requested by a CUSTOMER, such as me in this case. 

I am human, I can understand that my opportunity may not be the only one meant for your life and that your time is not only for me. Trust me, give me a try. Negotiate with me for another time, just explain why you cant make it as originally planned, and give me the option to work around me again. Is it that hard ?

Believe me, I too was late to meet the chicken rice for lunch contractor I love. I was an hour late because I had to change 4 car tires and apologised tremendously for wasting his time. I know you have other things in life to do apart from drinking champagne at 3pm to requesting workers to stay on premise so you can save 8k on lodging expenses for a fat dinner at Marinis on 57.

However, what I dont appreciate is when people jerk me off without saying why you cant make things work around me with a valid understanding reason. 

You can tell me this in Malay or English, I will understand. Just dont jerk me off.

d)Grasping what you say 

I cant stress on this. Out of 5 contractors, only 1 made a big difference and grasped practically everything I said. Believe it or not, this guy really is a humble chicken rice for lunch man. I really like this dude. On the flip side for people like the hipsters, the Mr. Take Care of Equipment, Mr. Justin and Mr. Alex who didnt bother to listen are no longer with us today as they couldnt grasp what we were saying. If you cant grasp what I need, then what more when the time comes to actually build ?

e)Pushy, Careful or Needs Pushing

Theres a tattoo hipster company that was very quick to reply to a quote. I even mentioned to them to take their time, dont rush or there will be mistakes. They came back within 2 days with a quote. Eager with desire to show that speed is everything to make a good impression.

However its not when you need to take time, slow down, and make a half a million decision.

Pushy can mean hungry, however not in this case. Working with speed can also mean working with errors. Which is why this company was not only over budget, they didnt even include electrical works, and had a RM 100,00K difference from the first quote to the current quote. And they couldn't grasp the specs mentioned.

On the other hand, My chicken-rice-for-lunch dude I met when it came time to hand me the quote and run the list with him immediately said :

"Boss, tak apa, angkat satu minggu, lebih pun tak apa. Baca pelahan pelahan" 

I really like this guy, cause when you are going to make a big decision (for lowyatt people 0.5million is nothing kan ? can approve with MBPJ within 2 days also), its important to read shit as many times to get things digested. So while you would think after waiting this long, I would be eager to start as soon as possible, this is where taking a bit of time will help. Me, looks like Im going to be taking 2 months. Believe it or not, even after studying things for 2 weeks, I still realised later that some things were missing from certain quotes as much as you like a particular contractor.

Then there are cases that need pushing. Such is the case with one of the temple contractors, I had to push a little, which gets annoying, however sometimes try putting yourself in someone elses shoes and give a chance. I always believe in giving people at least 1 chance to redeem themselves.

This guy had some temple event he helped to organize as well as shifting office before he could draft a quote, which was also not accurate when he quoted. The first time he quoted, he completely missed a floor. The second time was more accurate and included a second floor, electrical and plumbing. He took about 5 weeks to come back to me.

However in all fairness, this guy did help me with my Method Statement for MBPJ submissions. Which means technically he has still not used his one chance yet. The playing field can be reset again. Sometimes you just got to allow other people to ground themselves firmly in place from their current situations before they can assist you. Happens to me too, from time to time.

f)Imposing or Advising

Some contractors impose their ideas on what is right, such is the case of hipster online contractors. And if you have been reading me since 2017, these are people such as Mr. Justin who completely had our plans shat on and went over his head. Not even CIDB Certified as well !

They make you feel a little stupid because they only tell things but dont advise and listen. Hence theres a RM 100k discrepancy, has not electrical works and its STILL not right. I knew this from the start that these hipsters are not going to work out.

They have the tendency to use corporate words as well thinking Im a pencil pusher behind a desk and during every phone conversation, they always talk over words. So since they are imposing, then I dont feel like its worth my time. Matter of fact, Im now wasting their time instead for being imposing.

When a dude who looks like this just imposes his view on to you without listening,...

And the boo hoo assistants who look like they attend Coachella worrying me about the price of cement going up by 50%. Its hard to take these tattooed dudes & dudettes who love coffee and industrial themed buildings seriously. Good energy, honest work and humble vibes please.

Im sorry, I work in Manufacturing, I deal with materials, I mentioned this TWICE to them. You would think I would have maybe a tiny bit of knowledge on materials and to take that as a note, TWICE. Clearly they didnt think much of me, perhaps this is how they deal with clients who need to make a half a million dollar decision. And clearly they thought I too, ate avacado and toast and drank only Little Creatures to support the micro brewery industry by paying RM 25.00 for a bottle at Topshelf in Taman Tun lifestyle, Love that place though :). 

Sorry Hipsters, no PBR Beer, Industrial theme, avacado toast, Coachella, Mumford & Sons, single gear bikes and chequered shirts, gluten free meals, tattooed sleeves, ukelele and xylophone themed music, chai lattes, Mocassins, and oversized plain colored long sleeve shirts here. I think you are missing the picture like Mr. Justin.

I do support no socks though. I hate socks. But somehow, am beginning to wear them again :).

Dont get me wrong, I had a hipster beard, and yes I have a tattoo as well, though it doesnt say pride, or coffee, or some hipster star shit with fairies or whatever thats inked. No, I have a Dragon thats from my shoulder to my middle tricep. Just enough to conceal my short sleeve shirt, just enough to notice a tiny slit that theres a tattoo there. Something totally fine I guess when clients come by. 

But man, when hipsters say "I have 20 years experience" and you impose your ideas, clearly, something doesn't add up well. Getting a big ass siren saying "Coachella Alert" everywhere in my head saying "fuck these guys dude".  

Contractors who Advise to me have all come from looking at neighborhood contractors and the temple contractor who I met. Its not that I dislike online contractors, I simply have not met a good Online Contractor yet capable to give me advise that is better than what I think.

g)Quoting Thoroughly

Even when I have narrowed things down to now just 2 contractors, study them again and again and again. Theres always something that gets left out. This is why lowyatt hipsters will blog online :

"Budget sure confem over 30- 50% extra wan"

Let me ask you something in return, your budget is sure "confem" over 30% - 50% extra BECAUSE

a) you started adding your own hipster ideas to the project such as adding a wine cellar with a basement and a 3rd floor like a typical Cheras houses ? OR

b) you did not have a plan in the first place that a contractor could study what the Engineers plans and  specifications are ? OR

c) your contractor has poor eyes and not able to read your specifications (4/5 contractors in my case have this, maybe they have cataract) and that's why YOU being the dumb ass couldnt point out whats missing in your contractors quote after giving the Engineers Plans, Electrical Plan, Plumbing Plans in the quote. and having at least an 80% idea of what your Finishes are to be like OR

d) You did not find a Quantity Surveyor to count what you need

So which is it ?

a, b, c or d ?

I mean then why the fuck did I get this done in 2017 :- 

Also to get this done :-




Took time to do this :-

And lastly taking my time out for this too :-

Thats right dumbass, its always one of the above reasons. Thats why you have Architects, Engineers, Electrical and a Plumbing Plan so the contractor quote with better precision and accuracy. Its your fault if you didnt go through things correctly. Dumbass. Here's a reminder below

Thats why confem sure run 30-50%. And price of Cement going up 50%

h)Challenging Past Experiences 

The hipsters and some contractors had never described any problems faced in the past. Only current worries of worrying a person like me that cement is going up to 50 %. Which was called on as bullshit by the chicken rice contractor and the temple contractor. 

The chicken rice contractor told me his challenge that he had with one project where MBPJ came by and his workers had to stop as there was a stop work order by MBPJ. MBPJ were doing their "inspection". To which half a day was lost according to this contractor. In the end MBPJ could not find any fault in the project and they asked this contractor to measure dimensions to see if things were in accordance to plans. To which this contractor just said 

"Heres my tape, you go measure and see if you can find anything unusual"

To which, MBPJ found nothing wrong. Clearly this seems to be a case of MBPJ looking to ensure that everything is Nazi millimeter perfect. I think you get what Im saying here, *** hint hint.

So even with right approvals, shit still can happen, catch you off guard, and find yourself in hot soup,...or hot avacado for lowyatt hipsters. Something lowyatt folks know better than this contractor with their imposing ideas.  

Clearly hipsters will be worried the moment town council comes by and call you up saying "must give 10k otherwise I cannot have chai latte today"

So ask contractors if there were challenging issues faced in the past.  

3. SELECTING A CONTRACTOR

Selection boils down to a few reasons. Some of my decisions have been to weigh pros and cons on paper and trying to put a figure down. I wouldnt put cost as the first priority, because cost could always go up depending on what changes MAY be added to a project such as this. Eg:  I could change floors from cement to Terrazzo. So leave price out first as the priority. I would suggest the following criterias to consider in helping to select a Contractor. It becomes self explanatory afterwards.

a. Accuracy of Quote - not the grand total of things, how accurately has the contractor quoted things

b. Certified - Having a valid licence by CIDB and if the quotes provided are within their Grade, or below. If below, it would mean they have deliberately quoted lower first to fall within their CIDB Grading Range to allow you to confirm with them, only to have them mention you have more to add later.

c. Specs - Ensure they match up to what is needed from your Engineers, Electrical and Plumbing Plans specify. There are a lot of grades and sizes of things to validate in the quote before considering a Contractor

d. Ongoing Reference Projects - viewing the work of what the contractors past and present work done to judge

e. Price - does the accuracy of his quote and ongoing projects reflect what he is asking for your work. If it cost more, ask why ? If it cost less, why ?

f. Handling Challenges - has he had challenges from your town council in the past ? 

g. Terms - Yes, some want 50%, however if terms are not in favor, things don't kick off and everyone becomes a loser

h. Manners & Others - Everything from behavior, introduction, grasping what you say, falls in here. Trust develops with your intuition here as well. Forget speed of quoting, these are the grey areas of someone. I would trade speed for willingness to listen any day.

i. Advising - Having been advised for things that are better and what is correct / free advise

j. Agreeing to Penalties - Willingness to accept any penalties should the project be delayed  

Now give me your money Bitch

Thats 10 points above. How you quantify them is entirely up to you.

Whether you prioritize Price for instance at 50% or Specs at 25% etc. is entirely up to you. You will be amazed at how some things can be quantified to your selection. And I guarantee you, lowyatt fuckers dont do this.Otherwise, there would be a proper topic on how quantifying a decision is made for people in forums and Malaysia will be a better place. Which is why their recommendation will be shit. I also guarantee that you will amaze yourself on the hunch you have on a contractor and the results will not lie to how you quantify things.

With this, I have now boiled down things to 2 people, my chicken rice for lunch contractor and the temple contractor. From here, Ill be posting next on 2 topics : -

a) concluding my MBPJ Building Plans stage which is still an open topic in this blog that will allow me be done with MBPJ paperwork submissions since December 27, 2017

AND

b) being able to knock down this current house bought in October 2016, to FINALLY, build our Home. This is where the blog morphs into a proper construction Blog. Even if MBPJ decides to make a friendly visit, everything will be posted.

CONCLUSION

So what can we say about lowyatt people now ?

Hmmm, I dont know Sir. Is he CIDB Certified ? Did he fill in a Borang A and Borang B for Building Plans ? Was it above 1,000 square feet for your renovations where Development Order or Kebenaran Merancang was done ? Who cares if he is Chinese ? Will the colour of his skin be a judge or will the work, honesty, sweat and experience be it irregardless of race ?  And that taste in Purple on your facade with an illegally built car porch extending to your front pillars is highly skeptical coming from you. 

Well looks like a case of the blind leading the blind. This poor person probably didnt get a certified contractor, approvals, proper channels, cash blown, and another lowyatt folk thanking him for posting this comment. Shows the kind of people that are in these forums and who they engage with and when shit goes wrong, they worry you about contractors and blog about it with shitty emoticons and warnings. Poor dude now probably doesnt have a wine cellar now in his home in the basement.

Kids having a field day at their best :)

However, moving to my conclusion.

Do you know how many contractors my wife and I have met in the past 2.5 years. We have reached out to 20. Lowyatt folks are the greatest legends of all when they recommend contractors in forums saying things like "call him, tell him _______ reco 4u" and they will not even be CIDB Certified.

18 contractors later, only 1 was honest enough to tell me what to do correctly without getting involved into deep shit with the other 17 met all this while and recently. Im not your ordinary person. Have seen and met the bad, ugly and greedy. Now it has boiled down to one name for submissions as the form is filled. 

As this is still an open blog and if you have made it this far, next up I will be posting my Building Plan Approval for Commencing Work.

16th July

Its now almost 2 months since I finally came to a stage of finally settling on my contractor. Not an easy journey. Last night over some beers, I sighed so much in tiredness. This journey of meeting and reaching out to contractors in 2.5 years finally sank in my head with a sigh of relief that finally I am not making a quick and hasty decision. Even with my Dad, we had many conversations, advise, evidence thrown back and forward in the last 2 weeks leading up to this day have all been settled. 

The conversation with my wife was finally neutral in decision. The conversation of how scary, naive and stupid we were and dodging big bullets has now finally come to a decision that out of 20 people reached to, only 1 has been good enough to meet our needs, requirements and prerequisites according to the law. 

I decided to go with our Subang temple contractor. G7 in Grade, had his own quantity surveyor, M&E, made sure that all things were noted down well (with some last minute removal and add ons to balance the budget well). 

Now you know Im going to say something here about lowyatt people again. Yes, its coming up.

I decided on this guy as he had checked all the boxes even though he was one of the slowest and had to spend time with some temple activities and shifting office. However all was forgotten because of what was on paper, and he had his own quantity surveyor and showed me what was needed for the project. He also advised and pointed out what was missing in other contractors quotes when he was higher. So its decided. Subang Temple Contractor it is. 

Now coming back to lowyat folks. There is another piece of information that the contractor mentioned, there is a Hoarding Fee to pay to MBPJ before you can renovate to the scale Im doing in Petaling Jaya for a home. I will soon find out how much this fee will cost and blog about it below whn we are finally submitting things.

17th July

I prepare my Purchase Order and get ready for submitting things to him on the 19th of July. As I am typing my Purchase Order out based on what his quotation was, I found it amazing that some questions still needed asking. Unlike lowyatt folks, Im sure they just have to "prepares sum monies 4 kontraktor" but for me, I took things in a more official form by preparing a Purchase Order. 

Tomorrow will be the 18th of July. Just a last minute free day to look things over carefully one more time before making my announcement to him on Friday, the 19th of July. I will also be meeting my brother who had rebuilt his house (not a total demolition and rebuild but major renovations with an additional floor) in Damansara Heights to also seek some last minute advise. I would highly advise taking 1 day to be free, and keep things light and easy. When your money is in hand, and a decision is made, no matter what shitty advise may be given, there comes a time to say thats the best I could do. For me, its taken me 2.5years, for lowyatt folks, Development Order and Building Plans on lowyatt can be approved in 3 days like ABC, 1-2-3. So theres nothing to worry about for lowyatt people.

I have prepared all documents inclusive of a list of everyone for him which includes the Architect, Draftsman, Surveyor, Soil Investigator and Engineer with full details just in case he needs it. Im sure it will come in handy. 

I run through the quote and ask him last minute questions after drafting my Purchase Order word for Word based on his quotation. I have one more for him tomorrow just to make sure we run well.  

We will meet in Klang at 12 PM this Friday the 19th. He doesnt know I have confirmed him, but on Friday the news will be delivered. Im sure he will feel good. Not expecting this, but he will never know how relieved I am that Building Plans by confirming him will finally be able to be approved.

Hope the above will bring some light to your project and selecting a contractor. Will have another update soon when finally, my contractor is selected. Thank you for reading this far, things are about to start now.






18th July

One day before meeting the contractor, I head to Bukit Tunku, I sit down with my brother to have my presentation given to him with some plans and most importantly the quote. We play devils advocate, we question each others projects. He gives me some sound advise.

1. Anyone who asks 50% or 40% downpayment is bullshit. 

2. Make sure you get a CIDB Levy payment slip

3. Ensure that the copy of the Insurance is given to you (CAR & WC)

4. Never do other work when the work that is supposed to be done has not been completed yet

5. If they do point 4 above, if they ask you for money, you dont have to pay shit till the job thats supposed to be done is done first

6. If in point 4 above you have given consent to start other work first, make sure you find a balance between 2 concurring jobs to pay a fair fee and discuss with the contractor

7. If they say the project takes 6 months, make sure they are not rushing the job like plastering if its in bad weather so that the job is done quickly. Make sure weather and work have balance too

8. Follow the work schedule the best you can. Ensure contractors that as soon as their work is done, make sure to pay them smoothly within 2 days once you sign off on the work schedule progress sheet

9. Make sure that there is a good balance that when you ask for things, you and the contractor must both win

10. Hold back 5% as this is the norm. Having 6 - 12 months is really the norm.

There was a lot of good advise but the last one was the most intresting

11. How do you really feel about this contractor ?

All in all, my Dad and Brother gave pretty much the same advise though they had both not met. So Im pleased. I have 6 beers and a wine, and head back home with some Mackers, the time now is 11:35pm, watch some tv and sleep








19th July

I message the contractor in the morning, I say to the contractor, "we have chicken rice for lunch", we both talk, all is good. We have chicken rice for lunch in Pandamaran, Port Klang at Sunlight Chicken Rice.

Oh yes, how wonderful. Simple folk food. Fuck chai latte, avacado toast

We have a little small talk on the current business landscape of each other. We talk about each other a little more and asks about my Dad, clearly he has done some research and that has connected immediately in my mind that this guy has asked a little around. I give a little small talk more about my Dad. I then say I had a few Golden Tea's last night (Beer) and could use some food. We order, we eat and we are finished.

I bring up the topic of the home, mentioning what I was going to cancel out (1 item only) of the list, and replace those funds instead of some other work that the both of us completely missed. We discuss numbers, opportunities, and discuss my current financial situation and what can be done.

No talk about lowyatt "must prepare some monies 2 de majlis 4 tong roro" and shit like that. Just pure chicken rice business talk. No hipster coffee shit or "lets meet up for some coffee at this really industrial themed hipster cafe" that cant prepare a flat white well. Just herbal tea and chinese tea for us. Thank you.

How hipsters confirm deals for approving their contractors

I then show him how prepared I am, and I show him a piece of the CIDB search on his company and say "for formalities, I had to make sure all is well for my check". So we are now leveled that we both had checked each other out in some way. I then show him my Purchase Order and say

"Im ready brother"

Eyebrows raised, smile on his face, (he always is smiling anyway), we now both know, we have come to the tail end of things.

We share some MBPJ stories together, and about how bad last year was due to the election and how the Election Commission needs the town council members for 1 month to train them for designating town council workers at the polling stations and we were able to talk and get along well. He tells me about how his wife wants to do things after he had just done a major renovation to his place as well. We both have a good laugh and shake hands and head on our way.

With belly full, I describe my past struggles, and he too listens with stories such as Venessa from Affin (you can read my earlier posts about getting a home loan on this in 2016) and say its now almost 3 years. I have found funds now again by myself. This is our current situation. Its about 10% less than what you are asking for, but I am not asking for 10% less. I leave it to you now to have a sit back but please do let me know what can be done to ease my struggles a little. I will recuperate as the banks have been making really shitty offers once again, but I can do this now without them. I have gone through this before.

He then asks about the down payment, and what terms would I like to offer. To which I say

"I now leave it in your good hands"

I opened my heart, he acknowledges. Guards are down. He nods. He says "Let me first go back, and work out the costings so we can both be fair and move well" or something to that affect.

I then say I would like to start in September, hopefully early before the rains begin. I then ask him a few questions from such as the grade of Rebar he is using whether its lowyatt quality CQ (China Quality) or BS (British Standards) to which he says "BS" immediately. We talk about the length of time he needs to put back in his quote, me issuing a Purchase Order, and then him issuing me a Pro Forma Invoice and etc. He has checked all my boxes. He and I know what we are talking about and acting like adults. Though he is 11 years older than me, he really is at the same age as my eldest brother who gave me sound advise last night. Same age !

Now, I do mention as well that we will not shit each other and forget about squeezing things out of pocket. Thats not me, once Im settled and done and its on paper, we wont be shitting each other. I describe that I hate people like that who throw in extra freebies. Sorry, Freebies too are factored into costs by almost ALL establishments, but in this case, being humble and eating humble pie is what I am going to do. I dont want anything more done that what I need. Some lowyatt folks probably do not mind being selfish by going the extra mile to accuse and say "but you promise me this wall" or some shit, Sorry. No bullshit here. So that we are clear, I make it known to him I am clear too before any indicative stories come from his mouth.

We then shake hands, I get the bill and just like that, I popped out of the restaurant and the most amazing thing happened.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. I felt UNBELIEVABLY sleepy. Not because I had chicken rice with a little more extra rice, but seriously sleepy. I felt like I was feeling light. I was not expecting this. And I knew why immediately. 3 years since starting the journey of obtaining a loan, stressful vodka nights, pressure, fighting MBPJ for the home renovation approvals for Kebenaran Merancang and now being at this crucial stage of confirming this contractor and basically releasing RM 500,000 in someones hands to do my work after reaching out to 20 contractors, only 1 has been selected. And it is now him. The Sunway Temple Contractor.

Maybe lowyatt folks, in their lowyatt world, in their little "pm me on de side" kids do their approvals at blistering speed. But it had boiled down to this.

I told my Dad about how the conversation went although kinda went a little against his advise not to show my Purchase Order first, but played a balanced and fair reveal here though for the conversation I had with the contractor.

I also told Dad how sleepy I was after meeting him and Dad says

"Its because you are now calm"  

I guess this is what Cloud Nine feels like



2. The second thing I did today which was amazing too was I was at a junction feeling all sleepy, it suddenly occured to me, I should head to the Temple and just give thanks for whatever it is.

I head to the temple in Port Klang, give thanks and then head back to the office.


This has truly been a remarkable day. I just made a very very very big decision, its taken the better part of 2 months of late, but also about 2.5 years of listening to really bad contractors and advise.

This is a guy thats really found comfort in my heart, he has been open and honest throughout, I cannot find fault. If there is anything, we will now understand each others way of moving together.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes Ladies and Gents, I just confirmed my Contractor over Chicken Rice. AND THATS HOW ITS DONE !!!

Chicken Rice POWER !!!

I then head to the office, do some very menial work. The day has been really really really good. I then send him some rough ideas of what we were talking about in regards to the facade wall of the home and can you imagine, even at the last minute, we both missed this out. Even other contractors.

I then message email my 5 final documents to the Architect, Draftsman and Engineer. And now its 4pm. Thats all that could have been done. Now, we wait for the Draftsman to give the final approval documents filled, to MBPJ and then we wait for a chop & sign, and work out the first payment to the contractor, confirming things and we will be able to start work.

The next posting will really be about concluding this last chapter and then the blog morphs into a full on head strong Construction Topics with progress.

We are almost there folks, and for lowyatters and lowyattees, keep strong, dont worry, your God Status will come soon.

Have a great day folks =) Its been a wonderful day


22nd July

The weekend passes, I have some beers and a bottle of wine. On Monday I get an email from the contractor giving me his best final offer. To which I counter him and say please give me a number that I like and we work around a number that we agree on. And at 10 PM, yes not 10 AM hipster time when they are getting ready to open up their cafe's at 11AM, he says the following in the conversation. Its a catch 22 day, I have been told of a Dilapidation Report that needs to be done as well by my draftsman. More on this in the other Building Plan Approvals Blog that is still an open Blog.

So we have just agreed on a favorite number of mine. Glad that I am working with this guy rather than ANY one of those 19 people met

But this means that I have no roof because I will make one from scratch, I will also have no painting works done, that will be me and my Graco Machine, Windows self purchased and Doors as well. This has no tiling works yet. 

However lets recap once more at what a Un-certified lowyatt contractor crook had asked before in 2017

562,000.00, who would you go for ? I know who lowyatt folks would go for

23rd July

I message the contractor asking him to put in his work schedule when I should have my stuff ready, and also to give me terms as well. This way, when I have a Purchase Order ready for him and with a payment to follow suit, we have done our due paper work and signed. That way there is no lowyatt talk later of "You promise me tong roro but now got NO tong roro" or some other childish shit that lowyatt folks get caught in because they were not very observant and naive. Followed by more postings of scary stories. 

However, today I had to scram a little, because although I am looking at a Mid August work start, Theres another thing called Dilapidation Report or Dilapidation Survey which in lay mans terms means Building Survey. You will have to read my previous open blog for Building Plan Approvals for this. Another bite out of the pocket due soon.

Meantime, its fair to say that I will be getting his documents hopefully this week and lets see what happens next when money has to paid out for a deposit to commence work.

31st July

Contractor comes back with his final revised quote. No terms are mentioned. He gives me a construction timeline. It looks like it will be 9 months, start till end. If you have a contractor, make sure you ask for this if you are in my position. This clearly shows that work is being progressive, not starting 2 things at one time. Step by Step so payment is done correctly. Lowyatt contractors would start a couple of things at one time and ask for money otherwise. No bullshit half finished steps here while starting on another job.

Where some things overlap, its mostly at the tail end. Whats in red is what I have to provide for. If you are on the scale of things like me, this is where you will know when to pay for things. I have 10 payments to give issentially. So if something is still not finished, then I dont pay. Notice as well that electrical, plumbing etc come in at the tail end where certain things overlap. This is understandable. But proper hard work per se, ensure that its progressive and true to the progress. Overlapping comes a fucking issue.

1st August

I call the Contractor, speak to him, he mentions his terms. Im good. No 50% or 40% shit. Just traditional terms just the good ol way. I tell him I will prepare in the next couple of days my Purchase Order as well. 

2nd August

We decide on a date to meet to make my payment. We agree. He tells me he will not be around for 9 days. I decide to get some documents ready for him to fill up before the first payment is made. This is really about to get serious. Once he fills in his documents, we can start work. This also means a lot of lowyatt hipsters will also achieve God Status reading this blog. Because all the truth is almost out. Just this last stretch. Then the blog moves into a full on hardcore Construction Blog.

3rd August

Am at work. Do some work. At 3 : 15 PM, I send our contractor our Purchase Order. We email it. I thank God. I inform as well to my Dad. I inform the lovely wifey. This is our conversation below

Its the most hilarious reaction. I dont know what GIF this is but its awesome. Perfectly describes the moment.

Maybe for many, this isnt the common reaction for "some" people we know. Some would think its just an everyday thing appointing a contractor and confirming things. But when you are 3 years into this, theres really no other better way to describe this situation the way the GIF has. 

I call the contractor and tell him I have emailed the Purchase Order, we talk about our next meeting when we will exchange docs and make our first payment. We thank each other and thats it.

Now comes our first payment before work can actually start. How would you feel or react in my shoes ? Have you gone through this before ?

So this week is going to be a final finish up and then this chapter will officially close and I can move on to the next chapter of starting work. No more MBPJ stuff anymore. Just start already !

5th August

My wife and I head to the bank, in my other post, MBPJ wont be coming by today, but at least theres still progress. 

My wife and I reach the bank. We prepare a Bankers Cheque for our Contractor. I leave the cheque at the alter and say a prayer. 

6th August

I prepare my Purchase Order to be given out. I have my payment receipt made to be acknowledged. I also have my wife sign off on the relevant pages and copies to be given to the Contractor tomorrow.

7th August

I sign off on my documents, my Dad signs off on them too. At 5 pm I meet the contractor at Chitta Malls Papa Rich because who needs hipster cafe's.

I sit down with my envelope, thinking the surface was clean and it was a little wet. I check the cheque inside if there was any damage, PHEW !!!!!!!!!!

I meet the contractor and instantly pass him the cheque and we get our formalities out of the way because I told him Im not going to risk the cheque anymore in my hands being anywhere close to water. I hand him our our hard copy of our Purchase Order & Payment Acknowledgement (Receipt), 1 Original, 1 Copy. Here is what it looks like for your reference, perhaps you too would like to make some form of commitment done this way. This is just my version, please feel free to do what suits you.

This template is pretty much the same as our Contractors Quote. Easy for the both of us to understand

You may realise a Roof is missing, thats okay. We will be building our Roof ourselves.

See how much you pay for confirmation ? Whoever asks you for more tell them to fuck off. Forget the 30, 40, 50% assholes. Some LOVE to negotiate, however the contractor and I just simply LOVE to start and not waste time. Forget beat around the bush people. By the way, this is 2019, and the terms we received before in the pasts years were 30, 40 and even 50%. Banks should step in with contractors and manage terms for giving loans to people who want to renovate. Then that way money gets released based on the work that has been completed. Something lowyatt contractors will immediately overnight see themselves with no job taking contracts like ours. That how you clean up the industry and see no kids online in chat rooms and topics giving you shit experiences. Try watching the show Grand Designs (UK), its amazing.

This is the last portion of our Purchase Order. 3 signatures for approval, 1 signature for the Contractor who has accepted the terms, and notes etc.

This one here is for our Payment Receipt or Payment Acknowledgement. Have a minimum of 2 / 3 people sign always, that way in the years to come, no fingers can be pointed. Everything is documented. Everything is accounted for. And the Contractor sees how well you too are taking things professionally. That ladies and gents, is how we do our paper work and diligence the best we can to take care of ourselves. Im not sure if anyone else here in Malaysia has such an idea about how to go about this part online, but at least Im trying to help.

  

We have our drink, we chat. He asks if I have a hard copy of the Dilapidation Survey, I say yes and give him a hard copy. He also hands me his forms for MBPJ's Borang G (read up on Building Plans topic) for my Draftsman to submit in. All formalities are now officially out of the way. 

With that ladies and gents, this is how you appoint a contractor. No bullshit, everything is on the table and not promises in words. Document EVERYTHING the best you can and be wise. Dont be a lowyatt God Status junkie. 

The contractor and I have a half hour chat, and he tells me before leaving "Let me know when you want our guys to move in once you are done with MBPJ"

Thats it folks. Congratulations. Here is to adulthood and more maturity. No keyboard warrior kids giving advise here. No "Contractor run away" or "Contractor con me" or "Contractor bluff" You have just committed yourself to a Contractor the right way. Its the th of August. Its been almost 3 years now since we picked up our property, and now things are set in motion. My biggest advise is once your have got yourself a contractor, get things in black and white, ensure that everything isnt a fly by night verbal thing. Whats practiced is written, and whats written is practiced. 

With this we have come to an official end to this topic, about how to find Contractors, finding one and what to look for. The whole process to start work.

Thank you all for reading. I hope that whatever I have shared, will come to some little benefit to you. Its simply my experience at the end of the day. I believe I am not being naive. And if you have a better way to find a contractor, or an alternative method, share it with your loved ones. Teach them. For I too was taught how to go about this. Listen to others always, and use your resources the best you can to find a contractor worthy of taking on your job for the efforts and time you have put in. Take your time with this. Dont be in a rush. Signing documents and approving people is easy but not easier said and done finding the right partner to work with. I had 9 beers last night in celebration. This lengthy topic isnt something that can be broken down into tiny bits. Its a long read, and has been a long process, but now we are finally here. Good luck to all of you. God Bless All.